50 watt Dagnall clone

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50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby 908ssp » Sun Dec 06, 2009 1:41 pm

I finally got the 50 watt Dagnall clone amp together. The board is built to 12000 series Superlead specs and it has Brian's prototype Dagnall clone output transformer and Brian's PT. I only played it a short time yesterday and it sounded great. I'll play it more later today. I still have a couple things need tweaking I have more filtering then I wanted, didn't have the 16&16 cap so I need to change that. So far so good. There is a difference in the quality of the distortion I wont make any final comments yet just haven't played it enough to say for sure.
Alex

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Re: 50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby Brian Wallace » Sun Dec 06, 2009 10:06 pm

Alex,

I can't wait for the final results on this OT. :twisted:
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Re: 50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby 908ssp » Sun Dec 06, 2009 11:33 pm

I played it for about an hour this evening. Doing an a/b comparisons with a 68 trem and 69 lead and it sounds way different much closer to the EVH sound. It is more crunchy, more grind, more high end without shrill or harsh over tones. very cool. I still have to try some different tubes I have a set of 6ca7 Sylvanias to put in it.
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Re: 50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby 908ssp » Tue Dec 08, 2009 1:37 am

I lowered the filtering to 16&16, 32&32, and 50. I put in a set of 6ca7 tubes. The thing sounds amazing. It isn't built as pretty inside as I usually do and I used the wrong board but I'll try to get pictures and clips. I think this transformer is right first time hit home run. Brian you need to put one together. Let me know if there is an opportunity for you to hear it.
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Re: 50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby dai h. » Tue Dec 08, 2009 8:45 am

is this a new trafo?
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Re: 50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby 908ssp » Tue Dec 08, 2009 12:21 pm

What does "trafo" mean? I have never seen that before.

If it means tranny spec than yes I think it is. I asked around and nobody had built a Dagnall spec tranny in a 50 watt size before Brian did for me. I went and visited George at Metro Amp with Guy Hedrick. Guy was demoing Metro's 12000 series build aka EVH amp and they were commenting on the quality imparted by the Dagnall. Since I don't fancy 100 watt amps I decided I'd blaze the way for a 50 watt version.
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Re: 50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby Roe » Tue Dec 08, 2009 3:30 pm

trafo is norwegian slang for transformer, sort of corresponds to tranny
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Re: 50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby dai h. » Tue Dec 08, 2009 7:45 pm

thanks alex (and Roe--had no idea!) and sorry for the confusion! Sounds pretty cool. I like 50Ws too, especially the part where you only require half as many output tubes (me = cheapskate). :oops: :mrgreen:
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Re: 50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby neikeel » Mon Dec 14, 2009 10:35 am

Interesting concept.

Without wishing anyone to divulge trade secrets how do you go about this sort of thing? Is it the iron, lamination size, wire type and orientation.

Presumably the Drakes and Dagnalls are pretty similar.......................... :?:
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Re: 50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby 908ssp » Mon Dec 14, 2009 3:03 pm

What I was told and the reason for paying for this experiment was that the 16 ohm winding in the Dagnall was two separate sections of wire one mounted deep inside and one mounted closer to the surface. It is my understanding this wasn't done on Drakes. I don't know if there are other changes but that was enough for me to give it a try. I have been playing this amp and it is fast becoming my favorite. Now obviously there are lots of other changes as well and I am not enough of an expert to say for sure what contributes to what I hear but I think there is something going on with this I haven't heard with any of my Drakes or Drake clone amps.
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Re: 50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby dai h. » Tue Dec 15, 2009 6:15 pm

from what I've read and know (which is not much :oops: ), I gather it's something to do with physical construction and materials. (Presuming info avail. about pickup making applies) thickness of insulation (thus effect on geometry?--how that effects where things are--capacitance and whatever else--leakage inductance?), winding tension (I've read something about Jensen Transfomers using a Swiss computer controlled winding machine and getting more consistent results afterwards--this sounds to me like tiny differences can matter). Also, (what I remember from reading about the development of OEI OTs) it still has to sound right in the end, so maybe some listening tests. So maybe a combination of the big general things, plus lots of small details, plus listening, plus some subjectivity? Oh, and another thing I remember from Joe P.(OEI proprietor) discussing the development was that he experienced differences from manufacturers even though the specifications provided were the same. So I presume you'd want the transformer maker to be able to do what you want plus do it consistently.
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Re: 50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby Brian Wallace » Wed Dec 16, 2009 6:44 pm

dai h.

Just because you tell a transformer company what specs to make your transformer to doesn't mean they will all use the same technique to get the same end result. You have to be very specific as to what you want and how to make it layer by layer.
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Re: 50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby dai h. » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:53 pm

Brian, what do the "worse" transformer makers do? Would they say, just flat out ignore your instructions and do what is easier, cheaper for them or something like that? Perhaps suddenly change things without informing the purchaser?
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Re: 50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby Brian Wallace » Wed Dec 16, 2009 7:55 pm

I don't know about that but if you just give them numbers, they are just going to make it the way they want to.
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Re: 50 watt Dagnall clone

Postby dai h. » Thu Dec 17, 2009 5:25 am

thanks Brian. So I gather part of the process is choosing the right winder to get the desired end result. Hmmm... I wonder if this means that say if a given clone OT requires a more detailed wind but if it's meant for a very price competitive amp, the little things that make a difference are likely not to be done due to cost reasons. Therefore buy a Marstran. :mrgreen:
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