Premier Guitar JTM45 round up

A place to discuss Wallace amps.

Re: Premier Guitar JTM45 round up

Postby David B » Sat Apr 25, 2009 4:33 pm

What are they doing comparing JTM45's to a JTM50ish amp as a test standard ? :lol: If that is a 139 correct me if I'm wrong but is that yellow 4 ohm secondary wire going to the 16 ohm tap on the selector? Oh my.
User avatar
David B
 
Posts: 798
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:31 pm
Location: Rockville CT

Advertisement

Banner ads are available for $25 a month. PM or Email me at Info@wallaceamps.com for more details.

Re: Premier Guitar JTM45 round up

Postby dai h. » Sat Apr 25, 2009 6:28 pm

908ssp wrote: That is very unfortunate as these articles are always regarded as some kind of holy grail in authority. Also if true shows how totally ignorant of any technical aspect the testers were.


yes. Not very authoritative nor valid as a "JTM45 comparison". Shouldn't the mods and alterations be rather obvious for anyone purporting to be knowledgable about Marshalls? And one of the clone JTM45s was supposedly the closest to (what looks to be a modded) "genuine" JTM45...
dai h.
 
Posts: 716
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:38 pm

Re: Premier Guitar JTM45 round up

Postby Steve Ouimette » Sat Apr 25, 2009 10:00 pm

Brian makes great amps, period, and I loved his amp in this roundup. It was a joy to work with him and to play his amp, even though it took a beating in shipping...it still came out kicking.

However, I think some of you are missing the point of the article. It was meant to be a roundup of JTM 45 style amps for listening and enjoying the flavors of some great builders as well as some older amps. In no way was it considered to be a technical or an apples to apples comparison. The fact that they had different styles of OT's in them as well as tube types and NOS vs. new tubes shows that. There are also a lot of variations on the JTM 45. I was at Vic Mason's place not too long ago and played one of the very early RS OT JTM45's from his collection and it sounded fantastic, but it didn't sound like Angus Young's JTM.

I take great offense to statement of "how totally ignorant of any technical aspect the testers were". I don't claim to be an amp builder and in all of my years of posting online I've always been straight up about what I know and what I don't. John Rossi, on the other hand is anything but technically ignorant and has spent the last 5 years working with me on making my Marshall's sound the best they ever have.

My goal was to have a good time rounding up a great group of amps and pay respect to some of the finest builders out there. It's a shame to hear the negativity on this, especially from people that I've shared a lot of time with on forums throughout the years.

Steve
Steve Ouimette
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:37 pm

Re: Premier Guitar JTM45 round up

Postby dai h. » Sun Apr 26, 2009 8:12 am

the main concern here is not whether you are an alright guy(which I think you are) or that the Wallace didn't come out on top (just in case anyone is wondering). You did a "JTM45 round up" in which you are comparing and making conclusions, but what exactly are you comparing and using as a standard here? An apparently non-stock JTM45 (as a reference) and an apparently modded reissue JTM45 (as a variant). Things that are not within the JTM45 parameters (amps having circuit values which no originals had--the Mojave I would still include as a "JTM45 clone" since as I undertand, the power dampening which is basically a variable resistance in the PI--can be set to a stock un-modded condition. Also, it has a line out but this doesn't matter since it won't change the sound.) can't be included, otherwise you need to give the article a different title and slant. Unless I missed it, there is no mention of these aspects or any insight provided about this (despite having someone present who apparently does have technical knowledge enough to work on your amps(!)). Other than to say you liked some over others, plus the subjective impressions, at the point in which the "original" JTM45 and "reissue JTM45" were brought in, the whole exercise as a "JTM45 round up" was invalidated in my opinion.
dai h.
 
Posts: 716
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:38 pm

Re: Premier Guitar JTM45 round up

Postby Steve Ouimette » Sun Apr 26, 2009 4:46 pm

Dai,

I get your point on complete originality of the '65 and reissue as well as your criteria for a round up. True, there were some changes to both of those amps and had I been able to get a perfect spec 45 from 1965 that would have been great. In the article I pointed out that it was "our" '65 JTM 45 and never took this into a technical comparison per say, but more of a tonal comparison of what we had on hand. Perhaps a better word for it would have been "fiesta" rather than "round up"...i dunno. I did mention that the Mojave had both the power dampening as well as the line out but I opted not to talk about those features as part of the article despite the fact that the power dampening is an incredible convenience that sounds great.

In the end we'll have to agree to disagree on this I'm afraid. It's a subjective article as anything tone-related is going to be. No doubt there are a lot of groups out there that would enjoy getting together to have a technical shootout of the amps and draw conclusions that way, but we didn't do that. Sorry if it disappointed you.
Steve Ouimette
 
Posts: 2
Joined: Sat Apr 25, 2009 8:37 pm

Re: Premier Guitar JTM45 round up

Postby 908ssp » Mon Apr 27, 2009 1:03 am

What I think it is less about what the test and tester intended than what is the average guys going to get out of it. Unfortunately that is hardly in the control of the testers. It is the nature of comparisons that people want to draw conclusions. How many times have we heard the question with the word "best" in it. And then they get upset when you tell them there is no best. But for many getting close to the original is a goal and that is the trouble with including an original that isn't and comparing it.
Alex

Spelling and punctuation do matter.
908ssp
 
Posts: 126
Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2008 9:09 pm
Location: S.E. Michigan

Re: Premier Guitar JTM45 round up

Postby dai h. » Mon Apr 27, 2009 8:14 am

yes I think the average person is going to look at the article basically wondering how the modern clones fare against an original (which doesn't appear to be in a state where you call it "original"). And comparisons are being made so I'm not really sure how you couldn't conclude that there isn't a fundamental compromise. It'd be sort of like if you compared PAF clones and included one PAF-like but not within parameters of the variations seen and hotter but without mentioning (to the reader) that it wasn't something in such a state. I don't think the criticisms here are ones you can chalk up simply to people wanting to be negative, etc. Besides that if the original JTM45 was an example that could be confirmed to be in an original state and in good working condition(as well as the reiss.) it's not as if the article would be worse. Would be quite the opposite IMO and help the magazine live up to the "Premier" billing.
dai h.
 
Posts: 716
Joined: Sat Jun 07, 2008 9:38 pm

Re: Premier Guitar JTM45 round up

Postby swankmotee » Mon Apr 27, 2009 12:22 pm

Yes, I agree with all the critics here in that it isn't fair to compare a "modded" circuit to others that are more vintage correct. It slants the reader towards the vintage one being the "IT" one to have and the others being a close second and thats not really accurate or unbiased testing.
www.myspace.com/tommyhatcher for the sound of THUNDRIN' Marshall 100 watters!
swankmotee
 
Posts: 42
Joined: Sun Jun 15, 2008 3:00 pm
Location: NashVegas, Tn

Re: Premier Guitar JTM45 round up

Postby yngwie308 » Tue Apr 28, 2009 9:48 pm

Congratulations Steve on a great review and one of the best 'technical' reviews in an amp roundup I have ever read. The reviews clearly communicated to me as a player/writer(about amps/guitars, not songs.. :lol: ).
I had a clear impression of each amp and congratulations to Brian as any exclusion of a Wallace amp would be criminal, especially a JTM 45 roundup.
I am not understanding the criticism of the article, this sounds like the commentary one would expect on LPF.. :roll: :roll:
Great job by all, thanks again!!
yngwie308
yngwie308
 
Posts: 8
Joined: Sat Nov 29, 2008 9:47 pm

Re: Premier Guitar JTM45 round up

Postby David B » Fri May 01, 2009 9:13 pm

yngwie308 wrote:I am not understanding the criticism of the article



I don't think the criticism was directed to the whole article just the original JTM45 used for comparison.
Many consider the OT the heart of the amp and having the wrong OT in the gold standard amp is gonna raise questions. If the details outlined here are true then the validity of the comparison will be rightfully questioned even if there was no intent to mislead...... IMO :wink:
User avatar
David B
 
Posts: 798
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 9:31 pm
Location: Rockville CT

Re: Premier Guitar JTM45 round up

Postby Roe » Tue Apr 27, 2010 1:23 pm

brian, there's a typo on your webpage. it says premire, not premier :D
Roe
 
Posts: 164
Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2008 8:56 am

Re: Premier Guitar JTM45 round up

Postby Brian Wallace » Tue Apr 27, 2010 8:08 pm

Good eye, that's the kind of help I need. :wink:
Remember....You can fix it with a little extra energy and a positive attitude. ;)
User avatar
Brian Wallace
Site Admin
 
Posts: 1089
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 7:34 pm
Location: Livonia, Michigan

Previous

Return to Wallace Amplification

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


cron